Feel free to introduce yourself and tell us what you’re looking for?
Any comments are welcome. Some of the most exciting elements of this project has been the sharing of information, records and photographs. Just a quick comment expressing your view or research queries will also be welcome. The development of the internet opens new resources on a regular basis. Queries, ideas, hypotheses and guess work can then be developed over time.
If anyone is disappointed or upset by any clumsy or inappropriate content, let me know. Best wishes to all visitors to the site.
Hello, I am the oldest grandchild of William (Bill) Priestley Brock who is mentioned in these records. I greatly appreciated being able to read about him. Thank you.
Hello, my Gt uncle Edwin Burrows is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial. He was lost 12th October 1916. I notice Gt Granddaughters have also left commemorations on the British Legion site. If there is any way I can contact these distant cousins, I would be pleased.
Thanks for your comments.
Edwin was one of the Berkshire Regiment men who arrived in France on 1st July 1916. He was then attached to the Manchesters on 11th July and transferred on 1st September. I spent quite a lot of time researching these men to see if they fought at Guillemont on 30th July and found they did. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/guillemont/royal-berkshire-regiment-men-attached-to-17th-manchesters/
As a 36 year old married man, he enlisted in Acton where he lived with his extensive family. His Service Record is on line.
Finding other relatives is great and I hope you can make contact. I have no tips though. If you find a photo, or other info. please let me know. I’ll add it to his Obituary on https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/anniversary-12th-october-1916-flers-losses-for-17th-manchesters/
Watch this post where I’ll be adding the Service Record details.
Thank you so much for getting back to me and for providing so much information about my grandfather, William (Bill) Priestley Brock. I was thrilled to see the photograph. I shall be travelling for the next couple of months but hope to carry on my research into his life and will send you some information when I have it. I was very moved to think of you at Montauban on Ist July. I hope to visit there myself sometime in the future.
Thank you so much for the information about Edward Seaborn. My only other comment is to ask for an amendment to be made – Edward became William towards the end of the piece !!
I sometimes wonder how my mind works…
The post has been corrected.
I went to Heninel on 1st July on the way back from the Somme. It’s such a peaceful place, making the horrors of the Arras battle seem impossible. Then I found two isolated cemeteries with Manchester and Royal Scots Fusiliers to make a statement for all the 90th Brigade losses. Cuckoo Passage and Cherisy Road are well worth a visit when you’re passing down the autoroute
Many thanks for your hard work with this site. My grandfather served in the 17th Manchesters: Pte Thomas Staniforth 9427. Enlisted in Feb 1915. I’ve never seen any photographs of him at all, so you can imagine my surprise when I saw (on this site) the roll call of E Company, XX Platoon, from 1915. Pte Staniforth is listed as being in the photo. Is there any way of matching the soldiers with the names in the Roll? He was 37 yrs old when he joined up, so I guess he’s one of the older looking blokes.
On another note, I’m going for a few days’ walking around the Somme in September. Retracing some 17 Man steps and also those of my great-uncle Edmind Staniforth who was in the 1st Cheshires – KIA 3 Sept 1916 during the attack on Falfemont Farm. If anyone would like photos taking of a relative’s headstone etc I’d be more than happy to oblige. I’ll be staying in Albert and striking out from there each day.
Thanks for your comments. I’m afraid we don’t know the order of the men in the Platoon photos. On the other hand, you are lucky that Thomas’ Service Record survived the Blitz https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/2015/12/13/17th-battalion-service-records/
I can’t quite read the reason for his Pension Award, possibly Bronchitis – possibly due to gas. Please let us know if you know anything else about him and I’ll add it.
Enjoy the Somme trip. The first is the best, particularly on such a day!
Pingback: 17th Battalion Service Records | 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment on the Somme
Vin, You have another Gt Uncle who served in the Manchesters. 2822 John Staniforth enlisted in the 8th Bttn in Sept 1914. He was discharged unfit in 1916 with a heart complaint originating during, but not caused by his service. The condition would be aggravated by Service. John died in 1920 and if this was due to his heart complaint, his grave in Gorton may become recognised as a War Grave. If this is something that interests you, please let me know. IF you are in Manchester, please visit Gorton and take a photo of his grave. http://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/GenLocDetails.aspx?ID=182647
Thanks Tim, yes we knew about Gt Uncle John. I have his records along with my Grandad’s. If I’m reading John’s record correctly, he never went overseas? It was he who died in 1920, however, not Thomas 🙂
I live in Manchester so I will certainly make the trip to the Gorton cemetery.
I’ve corrected the typo reference to Thomas. Do the records for John say anything about cause of death? The Service Records you hold may tell us more. He stayed at Home according to the Pension Record.
If his death relates to the Heart complaint CWGC may recognise his burial. I’m waiting for a Death Certificate to find this out.
I’ve identified a photo in Gorton grave plot. It is unmarked at the moment….
I came across your brilliant website several years ago whilst researching my grandfather for a WW1 school project for my son. My grandfather was Oscar Michael Hetherington. Born 6th March 1894. 8649 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment. Along with a few family ‘anecdotes’ and finding his medal card index and the Battalion War Diary on-line, plus reading Michael Stedman’s Manchester Pals book, I was able to piece together a little of what his life in WW1 might have been like, but I was unable to find out specifics.
In the past couple of years, clearing out my parents house, we have uncovered a few more pieces of the jigsaw puzzle finding photographs of him (and his brother) in uniform, notations in a large family bible of the dates when he enlisted, was wounded (on two separate occasions),when he was gazetted; his medals; his RFC/RAF log book etc. But there were still gaps and I kept hitting brick walls trying to get more detail…
(All family letters of this period were destroyed apparently, but incredibly I have found a handwritten account of some of his WW1 experiences, written in the ‘40s when he was a recruiting officer in India, for a talk he gave on the ‘role of an officer’.)
Then just recently, with my family interested to try and find out more, we came across the discussion on the forum between timberman, yourself and charlie last Nov …. about him! It created great interest here and it explains some of the brick walls…We have just got a copy of the John Hartley book on the 17th Manchesters (£10!) and been able to read my grandfather’s biog and see him in his platoon photo (15th Platoon, D company).
We are planning on visiting the National Archives at Kew, where we have discovered both his Army and RFC service records are now available. I also hope to get a copy of the 19th Battalion War Diary for the period we now know he served with them in 1917 – after becoming a 2nd Lt in March until he was wounded 31st July (his name was apparently misspelt as ‘Etherington’ in the 19th Battalion’s history records.)
We are also interested to try and find out more details of what happened to him in early 1916 if possible, and also how he was wounded on 5th May (as noted in the family bible). Any ideas where else to research?
( My grandparents lived with us for several years in the ‘70s til his death in 1978 – he never spoke of his war experiences, and as a teenager growing up, I never thought to ask – how I wish!)
Lastly, once I have gathered as much as I can about his time during WW1 would any of this information/including photographs be of interest for your website and/or the Manchester Regiment or any other site?
Apologies for long missive, just much excitement in this household with latest information.
Thank you in advance for any help/advice – and for your incredibly informative website.
Thanks for your post – and your pleasant comments. I’ve had a busy week and hope to look at Oscar later today.
There is an Official Record of the 19th Bttn which mentions OM Etherington been wounded at Ypres The 19th Bttn War Diary has the correct spelling. I can’t add much more to what John has already written. On 5th May 1916, 1 man was killed by German artillery.https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/early-days-in-france/the-cost-of-trench-life/ He was in D Coy and I suspect Oscar was wounded in the same circumstances. He is buried at Suzanne, which probably means the Company were in that area, rather than Maricourt – where they would otherwise have been buried. The War Diary says 4 men were wounded on 5th May and it appears D Coy were in Vaux Wood.
I suggest you buy the War Diaries from National Archives. Less than £4 each and you may find more on Oscar, particularly the 19th Diary. The Court Martial is very interesting, particularly with his Commission so soon after. AWOL is very strange and I suspect you’ll find more at NA in Kew. Do let me know what you find.
I’d be delighted to create a post on this site for Oscar with any photos and documents. These personal biogs. make this project especially interesting for me and others – I hope. I will email you if this is what you would like.
Also try the absent voters list to see where he was in the Summer of 1918.
ps Oscar is mentioned on the Co-operative Wholesale Society Roll of Honour.
Many thanks for this Tim
We will explore the various routes you have suggested and, hoping we can fill in some of the gaps, will let you know. Yes, the AWOL/Court Martial/demotion/then suspension of punishment early 1916 followed by being wounded on 5th May then his Commission soon after has intrigued us, so hoping it becomes clear.
And, yes please, let me know how to forward relevant biog/photos/documents etc for my grandfather, via email I presume, for your website. I agree, being able to read a little of these men’s lives, and their experiences knowing your relative has shared them, somehow personalises and heightens what an extraordinary thing they did enlisting for and taking part in this war.
The WordPress account has updated and I’m really stuck. Please can you follow the Blog and that will give me an email address. It’s not good placing emails here because spammers will take it. I’ll delete this post when you’ve done the follow
New to this site so forgive the errors. I am Bill Edwards, living in Derbyshire. Some 40 years ago I bought a group of medals (WW1 War & Victory plus a memorial plaque) to Arthur Leonard Sheldon. Since I retired, I have been trying to put as much history as I can, behind the draw full of medals unsystematically collected over the years. Which brings me to Arthur.
Pte 9258 Arthur Leonard Sheldon, 17th Battalion Manchester (perhaps ‘reserve’) Regiment. Born 1889, resided 118 Tower Rd, Aston, Warwck, then of 39 Silver St, Miles Platting, baptised (along with his brother and 3 sisters!) at St Johns (Miles Platting) 26 March 1897, then moved to 160 Varley St, Miles Platting. He would have been 24 / 25 when he enlisted. He was killed in action on 30 July 1916 and is buried in the Danzig Alley Brit Cem. Mametz, ref vii U2.
I have copies of his medal roll and effects but I draw a blank with his service record and troop actions. I cannot help feeling that, when I look at the 17th Battalion photos there is Arthur.
If any of you could extend some help I would be very grateful, with my regards,
Thanks for your comment. I have a few thoughts on Arthur Sheldon and will try to compile something this week end.
I’ve made a few notes and added the photos you sent. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/2017/07/01/9258-arthur-leonard-sheldon-killed-in-action-29th-july-1916/
Hello Seventeenth Manchester Guest Book
I have some information on Lt Edward Melland Schill who lived in Alderley Edge and died on 25 August 1916 during the battles of Trones Wood. The information includes some photos and a few pages of text. Melland’s sister, Olive, left a bequest in Melland’s name to University of Manchester to promote international law with the aim of reducing the risks of armed conflict and the Melland Schill fund is still going strong.
It seems Lt Schill served with Lancs Fusils, rather than Manchesters. I suggest you ask on the Great War Forum to find more details. Great that he isn’t forgotten.
My Gt Gt Uncle was wounded and captured at Guillemont on 23/7/16. He was from the 5th Royal Fusiliers but his first postcard home to his family about being wounded he called himself 19th Manchesters. From JUne 1917 his postcards and letters read from 5th Royal Fusiliers. He was from and lived in Ealing London. He lived to return home after going from POW camps and then to Switzerland where he was kept untill the war ended. I have a wonderful collection of letters and postcards from him. I thank my grandmother ( his young neice at the time ) for keeping them safe for me to find.
Thanks for your comment.
The 5th Bttn of the (London Regiment) Royal Fusiliers was a Reserve Bttn that remained in the UK for the duration of hostilites. It’s objective was to train men to be sent to the front in the other Regular Bttns of the RF. When they were ready, they went to France for posting at one of the Infantry Brigade Depots.
By late July 1916, the drafts of men from England were mainly posted where they were needed, rather than staying with their original Regiment. As such it’s very likely your Gt Uncle was attached to the 19th Manchesters in mid July 1916 and captured in their failed assault on Guillemont.
In my post on Guillemont (below) I found that men from the R Berks (and RF) were attached to the 17th Bttn in mid July and not formerly transferred until 1 September 1916. It thus makes sense that your Gt Uncle was shown as 5th RF POW, because that was still his host Regiment and it was only men that remained at duty with the Manchesters that would’ve been transferred.
If you provide a name & number, I’ll see if I can find any more data for you.
If postcards or letters show other Manchester men, it would be good to see them.
Hello. I have just learnt that my Great great grandfather was Pt. Edwin Burrows 43278. (I was a Barnado’s baby). Are there any battalion/regimental photos archived that I could see? Any info would be welcome as I have no contact with any biological family. I cannot express the pride I have in learning my g g grandfather was prepared to lay his life down for his country. Remembrance Day will have an extra special significance for me this year.
Thank you so much for this site.
Hi Feona, It is great you’re finding your heritage and it’s wonderful to think that Edwin Burrows will still be commemorated. This is the basic details I have
Edwin BURROWS 43278 – Born Oxford. Enlisted Acton, Middx. KiA. Formerly 19171, Royal Berks Regt.. Age 37. Son of Charles and Martha Burrows; husband of Helen Burrows. THIEPVAL
Edwin joined the Battalion in mid July 1916 and took part in the assault on Guillemont. Have a look at https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/guillemont/royal-berkshire-regiment-men-attached-to-17th-manchesters/
Flers was the next attack, where Edwin was killed and my grandad was wounded on 12th October 1916. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/flers/
I have access to quite a lot more data ans will report back later. No photo yet. Sorry.
Edwin had 6 children. Which is your grandparent?
Please have a look at https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/flers/private-43278-edwin-burrows-killed-in-action-12th-october-1916/
Let me know if you have additions or corrections.
My grandmother was Eileen K born in 1904. I should qualify ‘no contac’t with biological family. There is a distant cousin whom I have been in touch with but nothing else. They do not want to know. However, I am so looking forward to finding out more about Edwin’s period in the Military. I must take after him as I served as well. Not WWWl though. LOL.
Thank you for your response and assistance.
I have just read the WordPress piece on Edwin. I am thrilled to have an account of a period in his life. You have no idea what it means to someone who has never known their biological family to learn a past relative gave their life for their country. I hold Edwin in high esteem.
It is my true pleasure to share information on men who served in the Battalion. If I find more details, I’ll add it and let you know.
I firmly recommend a trip to the Somme. Taking in the Edwin’s inscription on Thiepval Memorial will be an ovewhelming memory for your lifetime (Take Tissues). I have a photo, but I think it best you see for yourself.
Let me know in advance and I can make sure you can follow some of Edwin’s footsteps.
ps All families have challenges. Your Gt Grandad would be proud you’ve served your country too.
Dear Tim, recent acquisition of 8850 LCpl Ronald’s British War Medal led me to trying to identify all members of the Battalion who were mentioned in despatches and I have come up with a list of 17, which I believe is fairly comprehensive. More than happy to let you have the list (with LG details) if you would like to add them to the blog’s honours and medals page.
What has happened to the Manchester Regiment Forum?
Hi Mark, It looks like a problem with the Web Host. Hopefully a techy Moderator will resolve soon.
A wonderful and moving tribute to the men who gave so much and to the women and families of all involved. May they Rest in Peace.
Thank you Sheila, It’s rewarding to have this feedback. If you have any particular research interest with the Battalion / Regiment, please let me know. I’d be happy to have a look through records for you.
Pingback: Lance Corporal 8649 (Lieutenant) Oscar Michael Hetherington | 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment on the Somme
Currently we dont have any 17th Batt medals on the site but as the community is growin they will appear in this section. I will also try to enter as admin and point them in your direction. https://medalcheck.com/category/united-kingdom/ukww1/
You have an interesting project. Good luck with that.
I have been researching my great uncle Pte George William Rodger 9511 who died on 1/07 1916. I had little information about him but have learnt much about the 17th Manchester regt. The site is amazing, thank you.
Thanks for your post and appreciation on the site. Ultimatley it’s personal connections with 17th Bttn men that make the project more engaging. I’ll make a seperate post for George and let you know.
All the best.
I’ve made the post. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/2019/05/11/pte-9511-george-william-rodger-died-of-wounds-2nd-july-1916/
Please let me know if anything needs editing, or you have further bits to add.
Hi Tim. I was so excited to receive such a prompt response from you and thrilled to see George with his own post on the site. The information you have given has helped in understanding why he had no grave when he had died of wounds.It always puzzled me.
I had only recently found the same newspaper article showing his photo. No one in the family knew what he looked like. I keep looking at him!
I too had seen the photo of the platoon and thought George would be on it. However I visited Manchester Central Library and checked the book of the Manchester City Battalions ,he is listed as not being present on the day the photo was taken. The book refers to supplementary photos on pages 98 and 99 which show the remaining men. I assume George is one of those .
I can’t wait to pass on this information to my two aunts ( nieces of George) and to show them his photo. I feel as though George is back with his family.
Thank you so much. Susan.
Hi Sue, I was speculating about George being buried by his mates. It’s still a bit of a mystery as he may have gone back to duty to later ‘dissapear’, or simply ‘dissapeared’, possibly in transit to other medical attention. I have a bad habit of guessing.
There are a few 17th Bttn casualties noted as wounded and found to be casualties at Montauban – we can solely be certain that George was entered on a wounded list at some stage on 1/2 July and witnessed as dead later.
I went a long way down this road with Alfred Drake Hooley, with no real conclusion. I think I found his grave though (more speculation – see) https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/seeking-the-missing-100-men-from-montauban/the-charge-on-montauban/
I’m sorry to have posted the wrong picture. I’ve added the supplementary pics (98-99) at the bottom of the post. If you can work out which is George, I can zoom the camera in to get a better portrait from the Book. It’s a bit anomolous that the caption says A-B & C-D Coys on the image, yet the Pln lists say these pages include E Coy. If you can’t see George, I’ll ask some brighter afficianados for a tip. I confirm that 18th Bttn Roll starts after these 2 pics.
Which of George’s sisters was your Grandmother please? I prefer to show the context and she deserves the ‘credit’.
I’ve studied the extra photos trying to pinpoint George but I can’t say with any degree of confidence which one he could be. I’ll keep looking .
My grandmother was Nora, she was a couple of years older than George and I am told that they were very close.
By the way, Arthur ( George’s friend) also lived on Union Street at no 5.
I stumbled upon the story of Bert Brown’s war, and how he eventually was killed. It was an incredibly moving. I then found out that my grandfather, Thomas Goldsmith, was his commanding officer and there was a series of letters he had written to Bert’s family, both in transcript and original form.
Just last month my wife and I said we’d go over to France this year and see where he fought. I never met my grandfather but my grandmother told me that he never talked about the war afterwards.
It was only recently that I discovered he had signed up right at the start because he had a solid silver “Sans Changer” uniform badge that was only given by Lord Derby to the very first volunteers. Reading on, I found out that in April 1918 he had been awarded the MC, and shortly after, the Bar to the MC.
It seems he won these around the time that Bert was killed, and Bert’s family have located where that happened quite precisely. He was one of the last people to see Bert alive. It will be an honour to be able to pay Bert our last respects when we’re over there.
I still feel quite shaky and emotional about this, coming upon it by chance.
Thank you so much for putting the site together.
Welcome on Board. I’ve never heard pf the Sans Changer badge before. I think this may relate to his KLR service. To keep matters simple, let’s use the Bert Brown post for our discourse.
I have just discovered Douglas William Crick commemorated here, whilst researching the Military Heart Hospital in Colchester. He would be a prime candidate for “bringing in from the cold”. You have obviously researched him well and would be in a position to put forward all that as evidence in an application to have him being officially recognised as “War Dead” by the CWGC. I achieved this for an older cousin of my father, who had died of T.B. 4 months after discharge – having been sent home to die. He had been first recorded ill in the February but had “been kept on duty until the September”, getting increasingly more ill. Well done for commemorating all these lads.
In From the Cold Project reviewed the records for Douglas Crick. I share your thoughts that he deserves recognition, but accept CWGC need to be consistent. Still frustrating though.
Have you covered any Manchester Regiment men in your research?
Tim … Reviewed but are you saying rejected? I feel you have more evidence for Douglas Crick than I had for my relative and my relative WAS brought in from the cold. Oh well 😦 No, not researched another Manchester Regiment man. When I come to add Douglas in my chapter, I will write a little on him but will give a link to you.
Sadly rejected. I’ve had one success with a new commemoration and another is in hand. Great to rectify the omissions.
Here’s my 1st 17thBn Record related to Prestwich.
L/Corporal Blakeley, Fred : Son of Mr. J. R. and Mrs. S. A. Blakeley, of 20, Arthur St., Prestwich, Manchester. grandson of Robert and Betsy Blakeley, was awarded the Military Medal and was killed in action at Wancourt, France, on April 23rd 1917 in his 23rd year. ‘He has fought a good fight’ Memorial in St Mary’s Prestwich: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8kVokDWaEFihyRkTA
There is a great extract from his diary in “In Splendid Manner” by David Galloway.(http://www.prestwichheritage.co.uk/in-splendid-manner-prestwich-roll-of-honour-1914-1918/). I’m not sure what rules you have about posting info from publications, but here is an extract covering the award: https://photos.app.goo.gl/RsW9J166cHMmtC829
I’m happy to copy content and show the source. My computed will not let me access the site – phishing… FMP doesn’t show the Evening Chroic;le article either.Good to know he received the MM for action at Guillemont.
I found an article on Fred Wallwork DCM- with photo- in my search though.
Here’s more from Galloway’s research: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JmRhLB5xWoFLzdkz7 & https://photos.app.goo.gl/CZT6wG612EVVXCkG9 I’m still finding my way around where did you post the link to the family memorial?
This is a great personal account of the Montauban Battle and aftermath. I will add it to the sections of https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/the-big-push/ The letter helps with ocntext, although some of the timings are a bit inconsistent. I’m very surprised the letter passed through censorship, particulalry the sections about piles of bodies.
My site is somewhat out of control. I am building casualty list for each period and adding details as I go. See https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/afterwards/arras-hindenburg-line-heninel-23rd-april-1917/the-cost-january-to-april-1917/
Called through montauban this morning
Good to hear from you. Hope you stopped at the Pals Memorial and Triangle Point.
Hi Tim, I drove the route from roughly the start point, up the farm road through the village to triangle point. Then back to the memorial.
I’ve tried to paste a photo, but it’s not worked.
I try to call by when I’m heading north, time permitting. My wife was amazed at what was achieved that day.
2016 Centenary visit. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/centenary-of-the-liberation-of-montauban-1st-july-2016/img_5092/ What are you doing 1st July 2026? Fancy a stroll?
Another Prestwich link, is for Pvte GH Bahgshawe. as on his CWGC memorial entry his Mother is listed as living at 16 Clough Walk in Prestwich. You already have copious info regarding George and his Mother (which is fantastic to read btw). Galloway’s book has an entry for George as follows: https://photos.app.goo.gl/nuEjeoyZnLETh6AN9
One of many sad stories for men killed defending Maricourt. Sometimes forgotten in comparison in events that followed.
Hi how are you doing.
What a fantastic site.
My name is Phil Bimpson.
I’m searching for the war record of my grandfather.
Harry Bimpson 5030 lancashire fusiliers captured at Guilimont. 31july 1916.
Harry served in 10th Lancs Fusils (France 15/7/1915) and later 13th Bttn. He was admitted to Hosp in Feb 1916 with Influenza. He was captured at Guillemont on 30th July, when attached (I think) to D Coy, 18th Manchesters (Red Cross Records). 27 Rockhouse St, L/Pool. I’ll see if I can find out more later. Have a look a this https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/guillemont/
Thank you so much for the information you have provided.
The address tallys with my info.
Can we trace his journey, capture to freedom. Pow camp etc.
Is there a copy of his sign up papers/service record. How would I obtain them.
I’m sorry for the late reply. But my family are eternally grateful for you help.
Peace and love from Liverpool. Phil Bimpson.
Hi Phil, The records mainly came from FindMyPast. POW records can be found on the Red Cross site. There isn’t a complete Service Record, but various records built the limited picture I found. He’s called Henry in some records. For copyright purposes I can’t post the images, but they don’t add much.
Hi there, im a distant relative of Samuel Gisbourne who was KIA on 11.11.15 (reburied from Mericourt to Cerisy) – your site mentions you have some (now weathered) headstone grave photos – would you be able to send these? Any further information on Samuel would be most appreciated. Best regards
I generally limit my photos to Manchester Regiment burials and I’m afraid I don’t have any DCLI images. I assume you’ve seen the Cemetery pics. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/memorials-and-cemeteries/cemeteries/cerisy-gailly-military-cemetery-cerisy/ Here’s one from the Web https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56445509/gi
I also have photo of the current Caudron Farm in Maricourt – basically a farm yard, but hallowed ground where many British and Frence were originally interred.
His full name was Frederick Samel Gisbourne, aged only 16 at his death. It’s significant Samuel was below the minimum age for overseas service in a Regular Battalion. I suspect he may have been a pre-War Band Boy. Also a little strange he was from Walsall in DCLI, although they probably spread a wide recruitment net.
I’m interested in any information regarding Thomas Brett my Grandfather.I believe he had a long army career?He is commemorated on Messer’s & Ralli Bros Manchester roll of Honour WW1.Sadly he passed away aged 52 in 1936 in Salford leaving my Father William Brett (3rd Battalion Parachute regiment)WW11 fatherless aged 10.My Dad (who sadly passed away 2018 aged 91)always said from health problems associated with being gassed in WW1?Thomas served in India & also stationed at Bovvington Barracks Dorset(where my dad was born 1926)& lived on Clouds Hill the home of T.H.Laurence .Thomas is buried in Agecroft Cemetery sadly in a pauper’s grave with 9 other’s.Any information or even better a picture as I haven’t one & only a vague memory of ever seeing one would be very much appreciated.
As a Salford resident, my best bet is that he was Pte 10741 Thomas Brett of 15th (1st Salford Pals) Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers. I’ve found nothing to verify though. Pte Brett enlisted on 5/10/1914 and went to France on 23/11/1915. He had a Gun Shot Wound in the Rt Thigh and was transferred to Class P Working Reserve from 4th Bttn on 15/02/1917. He received a Pension until 1925 and lived at 244 Swinton Hall Rd, Pendlebury. I’ve stopped my FMP membership. This will have a Platoon Photo and Roll of Thomas.
Thankyou so much for your reply & more importantly your time & effort.Thomas was a Manchester resident when he was named on the work’s roll of honour?He it seem’s though through census record’s flitted between Manchester & Salford.The pension record you found rings true as I’ve seen a document stating that,but the reason sadly
I wasn’t able to read.I also found an army number 7813942 Royal Tank Corps this may be the link to Bovvington?it appears he had a long service record (from my dad’s memory).I am a complete novice & just trying to piece it all together as I feel it’s important not only to me & my family but to the history of the men who fought X
None of this information correlates with your Dad’s birth in Bovington. It is remotely possible Thomas re-enlisted and served after the Great War???
Sorry wrong info given on the previous reply as to Thomas’s pension.The document I seen stated he was given the pension 1925.
Yes.It appear’s he spent most of his life single & then married with children in the army.
Hi Gaynor, There’s a second tree on Ancestry and 1911 Census indicating Thomas then lived in Salford with his with wife and 1st daughter. No help on Army service though
Hello Tim, Percy Alfred Amos is remembered on the war at Christchurch Park, Ipswich, Suffolk too. We would like to ask please if we may use the picture of Percy to add to his profile page: https://www.ipswichwarmemorial.co.uk/percy-alfred-amos/
We would of course add a link back to this amazing website. Thank you and kind regards Helen
Hi Helen, You’re welcome to use the images. I believe the only one with copyright is from the Rochdale Observer – Newspaper Archive. When you’ve added his profile please send the link and I will add it to Percy’s obit. I noted his name on the CWS Memorial and then went further https://issuu.com/battlefieldsleuth/docs/cws_manchester_and_1914_recruitment
Hello Tim, Thank you for your kindness to allow us to use the image of Percy Alfred Amos. It is nice to add a face to a name. Kind regards Helen
Hlelen, My Pleasure. Sharing records is what makes this project more satisfying. Tim
Tim, thank you so much for finding more about Robert Lowe, particularly about Alice Walsh, the mystery lady mentioned in his papers. So sad that she never married.
You’re welcome Martine. Thanks for the photos. Always happy to extend the records for a 17th Bttn man. Alice had at least 1 brother and 5 sisters, so dificult to find those medals.
I have a photo of John Law, 17th bttn., Killed July 1916. Would you like to use it on this site?
YES PLEASE! I am searching for photos of any men who served in 17th Bn but III Platoon men are central to this research, as this was my Grandad’s Pln. Are you are relative of John Law?
I’ve just entered a further commemoration for Captain D H Budenberg – as WMR 100094 – a chair in The Regimental Chapel in Manchester Cathedral, inscribed with his name and date of death. One of 22 similarly dedicated to WW1 Manchester Regiment deaths – along with Battalion commemorations.
Thanks David, I need to make time to visit the Cathedral. Tim
Good evening, firstly have to congratulate you on the site. I’ve recently acquired a trio to 8083 Samuel Bray a member of 17th battalion D Company Platoon XIII. Samuel was taken captive among a number of his comrades at 1st Battle of the Somme St Quentin on March 22nd 1918. I’m managed to patch together a lot on his early years in Hulme but was wondering how I go about tracing his time as a Prisoner of War
Only one summary record is evident for Samuel in the ICRC records, possibly the phonetic index has hidden him. The Manchesters Forum Database shows 45 other D Coy men captured on 22/03/1918 and they were held in various camps. The wounded were initially held in 10 locations. My notes and the service record indicate he was repatriated on 21/12/1918, resident 13 Tipper St, Hulme. GSW Left Thigh. Demobilised on 10/03/1919. He had been a Warehousemen with Calico Printers Association prior to enlisting on 02/09/1914 (same day as my Grandad). France 08/11/1915. Previously time served with 7th Bn. Wounded Heninel 23/04/1917 & hospital again in Sept 1917. I would be delighted to make a Guest Post of your research if you would like to draft something. The medals create a tangible connection with the past and it’s great the custodian is taking a strong interest.
Good afternoon. I am a distant relative of Lance Corporal James (Jim) Thomson of III Platoon.
I’d just like to congratulate you on a superb site.
I can give you some background on Jim’s Scottish family and a couple of links to his Thomson relatives who were fighting in the war.
Jim’s grandfather was William Thomson (1830-1869) who was born in Torthorwald, Dumfriesshire which has long been the home of the Thomson family. This is a village to the east of Dumfries in lower Annandale. The family were shoemakers and grocers. This William Thomson became a publican and hotel keeper, largely in the Dumfries area but appears to have come south to Chorlton just before his death in 1869. He actually died at home in Scotland (of delirium tremens: so we can surmise he drank his profits). The widow of William, Jane Bremner Thomson re-married another Dumfries man, William Wilson, who was living in Salford and they returned to Scotland (and from there to Australia) leaving the eldest son behind — this was Jim’s father, another William Thomson (1856-1916).
This William Thomson was a labourer in an iron works. He marries Rose Hannah Pilkington (1857-1937) in 1877. They have 11 children. Jim was their 6th child. William Thomson dies in September 1916, aged 60 — a couple on months after Jim is lost on the Somme.
Jim marries Mary Jane Pegg (1891-1974) in 1915. She eventually remarries in 1940, George Barnes. i am not aware of any children. In 1911 Jim was working as a packer in an industrial works.
Jim Thomson’s first cousin was Lt Colin Leslie Thomson (1895-1918) of 35th Battalion AIF. He was killed in action at Villers-Bretonneaux, France in April 1918. Colin Thomson was the son of Jim’s uncle James Bremner Thomson who had gone into business in Australia and prospered. Googling his name will reveal a very fine photograph of him and a monument to him in Australia.
Finally my great great grandfather was the elder brother of William Hoggan the publican — he moved in the 1850s to Edinburgh where he was the coachman for the Earl of Rosebery. His grandson was Douglas Thomson MM (1897-1982), my grandfather, When he died in 1982 he left a deed-box of papers, items and photographs which related to WWI. I tell his story here:
He was L Cpl Jim Thomson’s second cousin.
Wonderful job that you have done here.
Thanks Donald, I’m always happy to see further colour added to the men that served in the Bn, especially members of III Pln.
Hello, I have left a message on Ancestry for you (TigersN12) do you still have an account or is better to contact you another way? It is regarding Joseph William Haigh who is in your Forgotten Battalion of the Manchester Regiment article, he is buried in Royton Cemetery. Regards Andrew Spence
It’s great you and Maria are looking to reinstate the Royton Roll of Honour. If you manage to visit Joseph’s plot at Royton, please take a photo if there is a headstone and I’ll add it the Forgotten Battalion eBook. If there’s no grave marking we may see a new CWGC headstone in due course. We have to be very patient on the non-commemoration cases. One of ours is outstanding for 2 1/2 years and we’ve had no new adjudications since November last year. I’ll send my email via Ancestry and also review my records to see if we have other men with a Royton connections.
Hi what an amazing site, and some fantastic research. Ive been looking for some time for information on John Baguley of the 17th 8385 who is mentioned in your site, he was my great great uncle and married to my dads great Aunt Mabel Finch nee Carter, Nee Baguley. I found your site previously and check it from time to time, and i never knew he was known as Jock. Ive also been searching for Johns brother-in-law, Mabels brother William E Carter (8494) he was part of the 17th Manchesters and survived the war only to die in August 1919, I have tracked down some medal rolls but, on the medal, rolls it shows his regiment first as the 13th Manchesters (8494) and then as the South Wales borders 64033. I have had it confirmed (by Regt museum) that he did join the 17th and it makes sense seeing how his brother-in-law joined at more or less the same time. But his death notice in the Manchester evening news also states 17th Pals. So im a bit confused as to how the medal roll shows both 13th Manchester’s and South Wales Borders. Apparently according to the death announcement, he was given a military funeral so im also puzzled about that as well.
Any advice you could give as to how I can find some answers would be really appreciated
Thanks for the kind words. The greatest satisfaction comes from sharing rresearch with other family member, so your post is most welcome. Based on their numbers, John Baguley & William Carter enlisted on 3 September 1914 and as you know they served in IV & XV Pln respectively. Looking at William’s medal rolls, I think there is an error on the Star Roll and he really disembarked with 17th Bn on 7 or probably 8 November 1915. Errors are common on the medal rolls, particularly when a man received them from a subsequent Regiment. At some stage William was transferred to 13th Bn. This probably followed sickenss or wounds but it may also have been after 17th Bn was disbanded in 1918. The multiple entries on the BWM/VM Roll usually relate to a man returning to the front on more than one occasion. He then transferred to SWB. As I’m also a non commemorations geek I’m going to dig a bit deeper and will let you know what I find. William was transferred to Army Reserve on 25/03/1919 and evidently died on 11/08/1919. As there is no Dependent’s Pension Card, it is unlikely that he will qualify for War Grave status but I want to verify if this is the case. If you wanted to spend £7 on a Death Certificate, this would give us cause of death and if this states wounds, he would qualify. As I spend too much on DCs (Mrs B tells me) I will you consider…
Hi Tim thanks so much for your response, which helps already. As far as I know William wasnt married I cannot locate marriage information for him either before 1914 or after. Before the war he was living with sister and John Baguley and the address he was listed at (94 George Street Hulme ) when he died was his brother and his wife. I did have a copy of his death cert but for some reason I cannot locate it so im going to order another however im sure he died of a heart condition, sadly very common in the men of my family.
Anything else you can find again would be much appreciated subject of course to any hassle from your wife 🙂
This is very useful Steve. Being transferred to Reserve, Class Z didn’t mean William was not entitled to an Army Pension and as he had no dependents, no such pension was awarded after his death. Sadly the Lutwaffe bombing means we lost many service & pension records and we have no means of finding out if he had a pension. The absence of a Disability Pension Card does suggest there was no such pension, yet this wouldn’t be categoric. There remains a prospect that William died from a heart condtion that was commencing in service, attributable or aggravated by service. This speculation isn’t adequate to build a case for commemoration.
thanks Tim when his death cert arrives ill confirm what the cause of death was. I wasnt really looking to have him commemorated. I just wondered if there was any more information out there about him. Both William and John were the classic Pals Battalion joinees along with William’s brother Frank, (my great grandfather) who joined the 18th. They were all Maker uppers, (according to the 1911 census ) Im not sure where William and John worked although Frank spent his life working for Lloyds packing warehouse so it could be they all worked there, Frank was taken POW at Guillemont and spent his war in Dulman and Sprottau. Thankfully he did as I wouldnt have been born 🙂 Although he didn’t survive much longer he died in 1926 but long enough to have 3 kids !
yes its very frustrating as it would seem all of those 3-service record’s didnt survive the Luftwaffe attack although some of Franks & Johns pension records have.
again, many thanks for your help
Hi Tim I have today received a copy of William Carter’s death certificate. he passed away on the 11/8/1919 less than 5 months after he was discharged. The death cert states cause of death as 1) Aortic disease 2) Heart failure. He was 25 years of age. I have found another couple or records for him via the forces war records site. both relate to him being at No. 31 Casualty Clearing Station first in 1917 for pyrexia and the second visit in 1918 for Haematuria
I wouldn’t have thought either of them were connected to his eventual death
Thanks Steve, To seek commemoration for William as a War Grave we will need to prove that the Aoortic disease was commencing in service, due to or aggravated by service. I don’t subscribe to FWR, so I can’t see what you’ve found. Haematuria or pyrexia are not close enough. We need to see Valvular Disease of the Heart (VDH) or something similary. Please you email me the source images and I will double check. I’m totally intrigued to know what records I’m missing from Ancestry, FMP & Fold3. Tim
Thanks for information I had not seen before about my great uncle Rowland Atkinson 10337 being taken ill in March 1916.
Thanks Carol, It is great to hear from other 17th Bn relatives. I suspect I gained these details from a service record off Ancestry. If you have any other information or images on Rowland, I’d be delighted to add it to the Montauban Caualties post.
Great site – thanks for all the work you put into it.
Have a photo of Rowland – not sure how to attach it.
Thanks Carol. I’ll drop you an email. Photos of the men are the gold standard for the research.
I am so grateful to the creators of this blog for preserving the memory of men who died in the Somme. It is a huge piece of work and has been done with love and care. Its so dignified to give the names of individuals, not just calling them ‘ ranks’ as army reports did. I found out so much about my ancestor Fred Sims including maps of where he fought and died, which makes him much more real to me
Hi Ruth, Thanks for the kind words. If you find further records on Fred, please let me know and I’ll add data to his profile. Sharing the records with family members provides my greatest enjoyment on this project. It’s so strange to think that my Grandad will have known Fred and fought alongside him at Guillemont and Flers. Great to keep the memory alive of all the men who served. Tim